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Gary Hamblin
Elias Sports Bureau, Mocksports Division


Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 689

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Rankings have always been who is the strongest team to date. a 0-3 team is never stronger than a 3-0 team. never,


I disagree. See Mr. Bapst's analysis of the #100 rank team. No way this team is stronger than the current #4 ranked team....just luckier in schedule, that's all. If you had the choice to take over one of those two teams, which one would you pick?

Quote:
keep it SIMPLE guys. The better record first, in case of a tie, head to head, then either points scored or least points given up or best margin of victory. It isnt that hard to figure out. SIMPLE.


You just defined the SEEDINGS. Please click on the SEEDS link and you will be a happy camper. The CofC is not SEEDINGS, it is not the college ranking system, it is a form of power ranking. The equation has been around for at least 15 years and it use to be used to rank over 600 teams. It seems to be very well suited for its purpose.

Quote:
Wins are weighted more than any other factor, but PF and PA are very important also.


Also note that wins become more of a factor the deeper we get into the season. A 1.000 win percentage in week 3 is easy, a lot of teams have done it (not one of mine of course, but a lot of teams). But a good win percentage in week 14 will get a heavier weighting. So as the season progresses, the teams with the good records will tend to get a better rating.

And finally, as John mentioned, there are two additional rules to winning the CofC; 1. You have to win your league's championship to qualify to win the CofC. and 2. Any team that ends the season with a perfect record will automatically win the CofC regardless of ranking.
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CofC Champion: 2004
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Bapst
10-and-5'er


Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 278
Location: Land of Lincoln

PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This has been a fascinating discussion but what I really want to know is how we got here from a classic Abbott and Costello comedy routine commemorating my victory over ... Who?
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Chuck Brooks
Frozen for DNA


Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 2639
Location: Lake Conroe, Texas

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And, to add to Bapst post, opinions also dont mean squat in this arena. Very Happy
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Chuck Brooks
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2005 Randy Mo$$ Pot League Champs
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FabSpoMom
Suh - Weet


Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 2499
Location: Rootstown, Ohio

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking the same thing....

how does one go from bating me.....

to a talk of the flawed C of C system - that has been around maybe longer than 15 years - that has a formula that the Chinese government is trying to steal.....

amazing.


Chuck and Rick - I appreciate your opinions. Sort of. You guys are new - and it's never a good idea to walk in to a bar that you've never been to before and start calling the locals stupid. We have a very long and storied tradition. I'm not sure if Owen Mock invented the formula, or who did - but that man was a genius - and the formula has withstood better men than you guys. Really - it works - and when you get to the end of the season and you're up there - you have something to be proud of.

Naturally
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John Kobe
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Joined: 05 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It wasn't the storied Owen Mock, but the amazing software guru Jim Fowler (?) ( Jim something ) that developed the formula and maybe I should post it and an explanation of it somewhere so people can really tear it apart.

It's become one of the annual discussions around here, along with the straight draft/snake draft. They get rehashed every year, but we don't have any plans on changing them. Doesn't mean that others can't come up with their own rankings to satisfy their 'who's better than who' talk, though.... and if I see one that works better than the current C or C, then maybe we'll talk about changing it. Maybe.
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chuck
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Joined: 31 Dec 1969
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

<<Chuck and Rick - I appreciate your opinions. Sort of. You guys are new - and it's never a good idea to walk in to a bar that you've never been to before and start calling the locals stupid. We have a very long and storied tradition. I'm not sure if Owen Mock invented the formula, or who did - but that man was a genius - and the formula has withstood better men than you guys. Really - it works - and when you get to the end of the season and you're up there - you have something to be proud of. >>

I'm sorry you feel that way.

I'm pulling for Lumberjacks #101 (6-0) who just beat #2 Oatmeal (3-3) to move up to crack the top 100.


Chuck
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Chuck Brooks
Frozen for DNA


Joined: 31 Dec 1969
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Location: Lake Conroe, Texas

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since I came from the Compuserve days, the only thing I can remember about those days was paying $75 for 1 nite of drafting since we only had a certain amount of minutes to use and everything over that was charged by the minute. (I believe I had 300 minutes for the month) That one almost cost me a divorce since my wife asked me how much I will win when I take the league championship. When I said "not a dime since its to do about honor and nothing about money". She told me to take my honor and go deposit it at the bank. AHH!! for the good old days. (I did give her 1/2 of my winnings in the POT league several years ago)
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John Kobe
Gruntled


Joined: 05 Nov 2003
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Location: Bowie, Maryland

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

I'm pulling for Lumberjacks #101 (6-0) who just beat #2 Oatmeal (3-3) to move up to crack the top 100.




I wish I'd only had 173 points scored against me.... I'd be 6-0 in every league I was in.... oh wait.... I lost to the Lumberjacks earlier ( 38 - 31.5 ) so I'd only be 5-1 in that league! Smile

That's the reason his 5-0 record has him ranked so low..... he's dead last in points against.... the only team out of 144 that has yet to hit the 200 point mark in PA. And the fact that he's scored 160 points less than the highest scoring team isn't helping either. But the good part is if it keeps up he'll be #1 seed in the playoffs and who knows after that.
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Jared Kobe
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Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Posts: 656

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My personal favorite is a different kind of power ranking measure, albeit only within the league, is looking at what a team's record is if they played every team every week. This irons out, somewhat, quirks in scheduling.

Here's Monsters after week five:

<pre>
Team W L Pct.
Bayou WarHawks 19 36 0.345
Who Need Two 29 26 0.527
Bayou Heat 34 21 0.618
Oatmeal Stoats 46 9 0.836
I See Dead People 42 13 0.764
Sacrificial Rams 8 47 0.145
Midwest Marauders 32 23 0.582
Iowa Loose Ends 39 16 0.709
ACE Piano Movers 21 34 0.382
Lumberjacks 26 29 0.473
Monster Mashers 14 41 0.255
Turkey Vultures 25 30 0.455


</pre>

Based upon this, I'd would say that Oatmeal being ranked higher than the Lumberjacks was justified.

Assuming scheduling to be random, the 15.7% chance that Oatmeal has two losses after Week 5 is slightly more likely than the 1.9% chance the Lumberjacks had of being undefeated. So, I'd say they both have quirky schedules.

Of course, it's all moot now. As they say, that's why you play the games.

The C of C ranking is always much more telling at the end of the season, because that is what the formula is designed for and that is when it counts. Are the AP/Coaches polls out now the final AP/Coaches polls? No. Hell, were the preseaon polls the final polls? It plays out for the better in the end.



And as for being number one and not winning the league:

1. Worse Gramatica Noname Jared Kobe 13 4 0 1237.0 904.0 126.110
* 2. Chicago Beef Noname Joe Weber 12 5 0 1137.0 913.0 105.488


Darn that Joe Weber!
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<b>Jared Kobe</b>

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ricky
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Joined: 14 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ARE YOU KIDDING ME. THE LUMBERJACKS ARE 7-0 AND CAN'T MAKE THE TOP 59.
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Chuck Brooks
Frozen for DNA


Joined: 31 Dec 1969
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Location: Lake Conroe, Texas

PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big deal! I'd be 7-0 if I only had 256 points scored against my team. You obviously still dont understand the ranking system. Its not about wins and losses but about power rankings.
Teams that the Lumberjacks have played this year have scored 46,33,39,31,23,48,35 points. Why should he be ranked higher when not one of those opponents have scored 50 points against him?
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Chuck Brooks
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Jared Kobe
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And I still can't understand why those undefeated Boise State teams were never ranked #1 in the country...
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<b>Jared Kobe</b>

<b>2001 Pale Ale Champion
2003 Steel Curtain Champion
2005 Steel Curtain Champion
2007 Steel Curtain Champion
2007 Posse Champion
2008 Posse Champion
2009 CSONKA Champion
2009 Hall of Fame Champion
2010 Purple People Eaters Champion
2011 Purple People Eaters Champion
2012 Pale Ale Tap Division Champion
2012 Purple People Eaters Champion
2012 CSONKA Champion</b>
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John Kobe
Gruntled


Joined: 05 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And he can still have the last laugh by going undefeated and winning the C of C outright.
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ricky
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And i hope he does. i dont even know him but is it his fault that his opponents are not that good. hes beating everyone in his path. I do understand the power rankings as you have them but couldnt they use a little tweaking. chill out chuck brooks and little kobe, just having a little fun. no body else wants to talk or disagree about anything. lighten up, its just fun, right.
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Chuck Brooks
Frozen for DNA


Joined: 31 Dec 1969
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of my boys told me to "chill out" 20 years ago and he was grounded for 2 weeks.
Ricky, you are grounded for a month. Laughing
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Chuck Brooks
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2005 Randy Mo$$ Pot League Champs
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