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gashouse
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't like supercedure, I wish we had FAAB. There are ways to foil the folks that get all the $1 guys at .00.00, claim them during the 58 hours! When you are at the end of the line it is strategically imperative to put claims in on as many players as you can.
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Steve Shiffrin
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Steve. I prefer FAAB. But I like Mike's idea better than the current system. I do not think the ability to claim a player should depend on the speed of your internet connection or on whether you happen to be home precisely 58 hours from noon of the day a prospect comes up (10 p.m est). One question about Mike's approach. Does it maintain one claiming list or two? Is the supercedure list different from the claiming list and does the latter list change (if there are two) when claims are made - dropping the winning claimant to the bottom. I would favor one list - I am guessing Mike intends this.
Regrettably, it makes no difference. This site is insulated from changes that would make it better.
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Steve Shiffrin
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Ed suggests, on roto supports a FAAB system. I am in a league which uses it and it works very well.
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curt222
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gashouse wrote:
I don't like supercedure, I wish we had FAAB. There are ways to foil the folks that get all the $1 guys at .00.00, claim them during the 58 hours! When you are at the end of the line it is strategically imperative to put claims in on as many players as you can.


I agree completely with this post. FAAB would be better. But part of the issue is there are some leagues where everyone is playing the lottery hoping we get the $1 stud rather than ponying up the extra $5. The easy solution is to claim the guy during the supercedure period. I suppose the issue is there is a middle ground between paying $1 or $6 (plus losing a supercedure spot). This is where FAAB would help.
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Mark Sims
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We tried this (Free Agent Bidding) shortly after moving from Compuserve. Playing against guys like Ed Covello taught me that something like that is only going to concentrate the talent even more in the hands of the hardcore players. You can see who has responded wanting to get rid of the current system, the guys who play the hardest. Most guys on here don't obsess about it enough to claim every decent prospect during supercedure, I wish they did, we only had 2 people who even tried to claim Colby Rasmus. The 2 claims per week settles things down a little bit but there should be a tweek or two to make things better. Maybe a cap on the number of Claims per year would make people treat a waiver claim more valuable. (reserve claims wouldn't count against the total)
This is my perspective, in 16 years on here this is the 1st time I have had the #1 spot in claiming, I like knowing that I am going to get a player I really like without anyone stopping me from getting him if they get promoted. Come on Texas you need a good Centerfielder, Tampa get your next young Phenom up.
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ShaneVG
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, several people are suggesting FAAB again.

So how should we implement it?

Not saying it will be done - As Mark mentioned, last time we tried it there were very few bids (about as many as our supercedure activity), and that resulted in $71 Pat Burrell and some other... uhm... interesting results. It seemed to *reduce* the number of keepers, which makes the auctions longer...
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gashouse
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be neat to have a "test" league or two where we could try FAAB. FAAB wouldn't fix everything that folks don't like about supercedure and would probably have it's own idiosyncracies, but we could see how it compares. I've been in a league that uses FAAB, the one that Steve Shiffrin alluded to previously, and really enjoyed the process. There's a ton of strategies for managing your money throughout the season- do you spend your FAAB money on leftover talent post auction or save it for that big name interleague July trade or snipe all the prospects that are promoted in September or try all of those or maybe something else. The system we used was fairly automated, so it could make life easier for LAs. It seems that when you tried FAAB before part of the problem was inactive owners, a situation that still exists.
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Crosley
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never played in a league that used FAAB but I would expect it to bring/create its own set of problems. However we address this issue, I will say - as a two-league LA here - that I would not mind adding a little more complication to the LA job in exchange for happier owners. Whether that plays out as FAAB, "phased supercedure" (a la Mike C's thoughts), or some way not yet proposed won't matter much.
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William Field
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about making some leagues FAAB and others supercedure? Let the owners "pick their poison."
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Steve Shiffrin
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to be clear, I am in four leagues that use FAAB. I co-administer two of them. FAAB is much easier for league administrators given at least partial automation available on the sites. On rotowire, most weeks take less than 5 minutes to implement the FAAB bids. The first week takes about a 1/2 hour per league. It is not the case that FAAB produces fewer keepers. There are sometimes very high bids on players, but they are outliers. People who are not in contention tend to bid on players with an eye to next year, and they are rewarded with keepers. But they always have to fear the bids of at least one other owner which keeps them honest. A player like Rasmus would ordinarily not go for a keeper price and he did not in the two Al leagues with FAAB in which I participate.
I agree that the Ed Covello's of the world will profit in a FAAB system, but Ed Covello could not have been stopped in any reasonable system. Moreover, players with superior knowledge of the player pool should do well.
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Steve Shiffrin
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As to the question, how to implement it, what is the issue: give a $100 budget (the leagues with significantly higher FAAB budgets are redraft leagues) to everyone and set weekly deadlines. Either allow FAAB $ to be traded or not. In the two leagues I co-administer, they cannot be traded. In another league run by a Tout Wars participant, they can be traded. I mildly favor the latter because it increases trades at the margin.
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dabob
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:42 am    Post subject: Comment Reply with quote

Sorry I missed this chain live but I would not mind something that was a little less dependent on when you place your bids. Heck I still get confused as to whether or not a player is a free agent at noon or at 10:00 PM.

Although I sometimes enjoy waiting until 10:00 PM to bid on a player, I can't tell you how many times I would get busy in the evening working and totally forgot to log on until the next morning and it was too late.

The $ value may not seem like a big deal but when you are taking a flier on a younger player it can make a difference whether or not you decide to keep him next year.

If FAAB is easier for the LAs than I am on-board with it.

bob
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Mike_Cameron
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark Sims wrote:
We tried this (Free Agent Bidding) shortly after moving from Compuserve. Playing against guys like Ed Covello taught me that something like that is only going to concentrate the talent even more in the hands of the hardcore players.


That is essentially what happens now with the 9 o'clock shuffle. Only the real hardcore go for that split second claim.
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Mike_Cameron
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gashouse wrote:
There are ways to foil the folks that get all the $1 guys at .00.00, claim them during the 58 hours! When you are at the end of the line it is strategically imperative to put claims in on as many players as you can.


This needs to be posted in each league forum about every three to five weeks. Especially later in the season, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO MOVE INTO THE CATBIRD SEAT from #6 or below... why let somebody take a potential keeper for a buck. Drives me nuts. Sometimes there is just no move you can make. But mostly it is just frikken apathy.

I think I was in a league last year where the top guys NEVER used their supercedure advantage and the guys lower down just kept wishin' an a hopin' they'd move up so absolutely NO supercedure claims were ever made and the 9 o'click dance dominated the claims... disgusting. I think I was sitting in the number two or three hole and never caught on that there would be no movement... my bad... still disgusting.

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Mad Mad Mad Mad
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Gillestar
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

with the current system, it is not what you do, but when you do it. With Faab, what you do becomes more important than when you do it. That is a no-brainer.....let's add some skill to acquiring free agents using Faab. And why are we worrying about people who show up for the auction and then do nothing anyway? Either system places the players in the hands of the "hard-core" players, but that is the way it should be. At least let's place them with the hard-cpre players based on their skill, and not based on them having no life, which allows them to always be online at 10PM est. The current system is a joke, and should be changed!
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